Question for the Sentinel hive-mind...

Well, we do see Steven in Remembrance, but as a kid in Jim's flashbacks. He notices that Jimmy is looking at where his dad's talking to Grace on the phone and questions what Jimmy is looking at. Since Jim was using them quite naturally as a kid, I expect that Steve probably didn't have a frame of reference as to whether Jimmy was doing anything particularly extraordinary. Stevie seems easily distracted -- Jimmy deflects his question by bringing up the Superman/Spiderman question.

Interestingly, Jimmy might have done that because he thought Stevie might have been able to hear his father's argument with his ex. After all, Jimmy himself doesn't recognize the extent of his abilities. He might have thought that Stevie could hear the things that Jimmy could.

That William lies to the police about Jimmy's sight shows that he's aware of Jimmy's abilities, enough that he knows they are extraordinary. There's no way, therefore, that Jimmy could have hid them. I just think that Stevie being so young, combined with his hero-worship of his brother and living up to that point with Jimmy casually using his senses, probably didn't recognize anything special. And, when Jimmy surpresses them, probably not long after the "freak" talk from his dad, Stevie doesn't notice that they are gone either.

I expect that if adult Steven were questioned he could probably remember instances when Jimmy used his senses that went unexplained as do so many things in our lives. But without someone to kind of point it out to him it probably went the way of 80% of his childhood memories that were just too ordinary to make a lasting impression.

Of course, after His Brother's Keeper, it looks as if the brothers are going to stay in touch. With Jim's extraordinarily clumsy way of using his senses in front of everyone, I expect he would have slipped up and used them in front of adult Steven, who might just then be able to come up with two and two making four. If not, by the time TSbBS comes out and he and William are being swarmed by reporters, he could probably figure it out then.

I'll wait with interest to see what you come up with. We definitely don't have enough stories with Steven in them.

Oh and there's always been something that kind of bugs me about Remembrance and the flashback. When Jimmy and Bud are throwing around the football, Jimmy says Stevie is coming and Bud asks him how he knows and Jimmy says he just does. Then he shows off his sense of smell by identifying that they are going to have roast beef for dinner.

Bud is an adult and was a mentor to Jimmy. How could he not have questioned what was going on or come to any conclusion about it? And so, if an adult, who has a lot more experience with what is "normal", wasn't able to figure it out I doubt Stevie really couldn't.

Oh dear, now you've got me started! ^_^

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How could he not have questioned what was going on or come to any conclusion about it?

I think most adults are too set in their thinking about "the way the world works". I expect that, even if Bud wondered at some point, he'd shake his head and say, "Nah; couldn't be!"
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With Jim's extraordinarily clumsy way of using his senses in front of everyone, I expect he would have slipped up and used them in front of adult Steven, who might just then be able to come up with two and two making four.

Oh, great catch! That's the kind of speculation I need to build on. Thank you.

TSbyBS won't be a factor.
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I don't think that Steven would guess from the events of Brother's Keeper. He's definitely young enough that he wouldn't necessarily put the pieces together from childhood memories.

I think it depends on several things. We don't know how close Jim and Steven became but the ending of the episode implies reconciliation, so Jim may actually have told Steven, especially given that Steven may wonder why that hippie guy hangs around. Also, I presume from comments in TSbyBS that the cat will be out of the bag then, and of course we never know how much contact Steven has with William at any time.

of course we never know how much contact Steven has with William at any time.

Oh that's interesting. If they were in contact, do you think after Remembrance William would have 'fessed up to Steven that he knew about Jim's senses when he was a kid? Or do you think that William might have been ashamed of his actions and kept mum?

If Jim had stayed in contact with Steven after HBK, he surely would have told Steven about the attack on William, which would have led to a lot of questions. Oh these mysterious Ellison men!

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If Jim had stayed in contact with Steven after HBK, he surely would have told Steven about the attack on William, which would have led to a lot of questions.

Not necessarily. What's-his-name wasn't out to bring Jim down because of his senses, but more because Jim's team had beat his at the game. I mean, his father killed Bud, but he was never caught for the crime, so revenge for that shouldn't have been a motive...

But, as you said earlier, Jim might well have let something slip before then.
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Not necessarily. What's-his-name wasn't out to bring Jim down because of his senses,

I was thinking more of the fact that William finally admits to Jim that he knew he had the senses as a kid, which is a revelation to Jim. I expect that after the initial relief that William wasn't seriously hurt that a few recriminations would make their way out and Steven would probably be privvy to them either through his dad or through Jim.

I agree with your comment to Mab. I don't think William would have up until that point brought up Jim's senses to Steven, even if they were close. For one thing he had every reason to believe that they were suppressed when he was a kid and that they stayed that way. So there would be no point. For another I expect he would never have brought them up unless someone else did first -- those Ellison men also live in the land of de Nile!

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but the ending of the episode implies reconciliation, so Jim may actually have told Steven, especially given that Steven may wonder why that hippie guy hangs around.

Ah, yes, explaining Blair's presence -- another good point. All grist for the mill; thank you.

I kind of suspect Steven and William stayed relatively close; after Jim left home, William would have only one son to interact with. And of course, Steven became a businessman, so William might have demonstrated approval -- as he understood it -- and remained on speaking terms with his younger son.

OTOH, I suspect he wouldn't have mentioned Jim's senses, especially before "Remembrance", which is 18 episodes and almost a year later. (If we go by episode dates -- May 14, 97 to March 11, 98.) Firstly, William hasn't seen Jim yet, and secondly, he was so adamant about Jim hiding his senses as a boy that he probably wouldn't bring them up without a specific reason.
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I've always thought that Steven knew, based on the way he accepts them when they're kids and then how he *doesn't* question how Jim figured out stuff at the racetrack. Me, if it was my brother, I'd be like, "You *heard* that?!?"...and I don't talk to my brother often (he hates talking on the phone and email is so not his thing), so I don't know him as well as I might.

I can't imagine that Steven's had it easy with William, either. William strikes me as the kind of guy who'd make Steven feel like crap -- but that gets into what kind of businessman was William, and how much did Steven follow in his footsteps, and that's not the thrust of your question.

Personally, I love Steven -- there's so much that never got explored in that relationship with Jim, and how much he reconciled with Jim post-HBK is very much open to interpretation. But that last line in the ep makes me think that Jim forgave him for the past, and maybe let Steven draw his own conclusions about what Jim heard or didn't hear. :-)

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See, I think kids just accept 'what is'. I figure a younger brother would just expect the big brother to be great, and not compare Jim's abilities to other people. He might have questioned Jim about how he did things... but I think it equally possible that he just shrugged it off, falling back into the old patterns of childhood.

I think Steven and William could go either way; William might have come down harder on Steven after Jim left, trying to prevent him from kicking over the traces, as Jim did. OTOH, it could have been a wake-up call; he'd driven one son away, and better change his ways or he'll drive the other away. I think the scrapbook points to a softening of attitude.

But that last line in the ep makes me think that Jim forgave him for the past, and maybe let Steven draw his own conclusions about what Jim heard or didn't hear.

See, I don't get that at all. But knowing that other people see layers there is useful for adding to the background mix. Thank you.
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I think it might especially be hard for Steven to notice something unless there was a trauma involved. We hear nothing about young Jim having the sensory problems that plague him as an adult. No zones or spikes or weird drug sensitivites. So if he had a cold as a kid and took a children's cold medicine and didn't have hallucinations, there's nothing remarkable *to* notice.

In Dasha's Dorset County series, she has Steven worrying about whether his daughter is going to have hyper-active senses. The thing he remembers about Jimmy is his over-reaction to pain -- minor scrapes and bumps were major crises in pain management and it scared Steven. But in the few short flashbacks we see in Remembrance Jimmy is leading a normal boy's life. He rides a bike and presumably sometimes falls off it. He plays football and plays hard enough to be a starter for the team -- would he have if the tiniest tackle was a problem? Wouldn't have the coaches or teachers noticed? If he zoned as a kid wouldn't he have a documented medical record that pointed to perhaps having epilepsy?

Obviously not because he sailed through the Army and the Rangers with no reported history of unexplained childhood medical problems and I'm sure they would have looked at his entire history.

Perhaps when he was a kid the senses hadn't reached a point where they were causing the spikes or zones or sensitivities. Perhaps when they became stronger the negatives also developed. But for whatever reason it doesn't seem as if Jimmy suffered any trauma as a result of the senses, which would also make them less likely to be noticed or remembered by Steven.

I tend to think that Steven would have just accepted Jim's talents. I believe he looked up to his older brother at first and had a tiny amount of hero worshiping going on. When Jim repressed his senses - which couldn't have happened all at once - Steven more or less put his memories of the special things Jim could do down to that hero worship.
I'm sure in HBK, Steven started putting two and two together and the two men had a talk about what Jim is and what Blair is to Jim. And probably how they have to keep quiet about all that.
Marion

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Eep! Sorry to be so late in answering; I got caught up in writing, and forgot.

I like this idea, and I saw it going that way, too, but my muse didn't agree. The story turned out very differently from what I had planned. Isn't that always the way? <g>
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So, was this the story you did for Secret Santa? I like what you finally decided to do re: what Steven did or did not know as an adult and a child. And what William might or might not have told him.

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Yes, after I posted the question, I kicked myself. Talk about killing the anonymity! I just glad no one made the connection until now.

Thank you so much; I'm glad you enjoyed it.
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